can you have a supercharger and a turbo

To get from the supercharger outlet to the intercooler you must go behind the sway bar, over to the right side of the radiator, and then up and over the front part of the skid bar assembly. Neat trick, even though it wasn't that awesome. Turbos are more tricky. This also reduces the notable stress on the components in the lower RPM range while assisting with traction. Superchargers will have no lag since there is no wait for the power increase. Two Technologies with One Purpose Greg has spent fifteen years and counting in automotive publishing, with most of his work having a very technical focus. A super charger can have slightly less power gain because it takes more horsepower to run the super charger. So, whether the job calls for new Dodge Ram turbochargers or a new Chevy Silverado turbocharger, you can count on AutoZone to provide you with the right products. Firing Order Swaps: What’s Best For Your Engine? And, our products are custom-designed to match your vehicle's specific engine. A small supercharger feeds boost into the engine as the large turbo spools. A supercharger is an air compressor that increases the pressure or density of air inside the combustion engine. They can help point you towards the right camshaft profile, whether it’s on the shelf or a custom grind. In fact, I think there were. All posts copyright their original authors. Max answered 2 weeks ago. Generally speaking, superchargers are believed to boost the engine better than turbochargers. AutoGator has quality used turbochargers and superchargers for cars and trucks. As others have said twincharging has been done lots, both on cars and airplanes. It wouldn't be a first turbo/super project and you won't have expertise to fall back on when things, inevitably, don't work correctly. Obviously, no one is going to be able to spec out their own camshaft – let alone a forced-induction camshaft – after watching a five minute video and reading a single article. I have a Supercharger at home and am curious to know if it'll fit in my R50 Cooper base, and what it would take. If you need the whole replacement turbo or supercharger, we have that too. If you had like a turbo 300 or 400, you could buy a simple shift kit to help deal with the power. ... a turbo can be … Seems to me the reason you might want to do this is two-fold: by starting with the supercharger you elliminate the turbo lag, and when you switch from super to turbo you're using exhaust gases, rather than the engine to blow more air in. The combination of the negative pressure wave in the chamber and a positive wave in the runner can result in a net pressure drop across the valve at intake opening, even though the piston is still going up towards TDC.”. “We can use piston motion and some wave tuning to get charge motion at a lower velocity and with less valve timing,” Godbold explains. I have 14 PC turbo and 17' PC SC. Report. Cool the air after the supercharger (if you can that is, some designs you just cant) 3 people found this helpful. In short, no. 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The density of the intake charge is increased with the addition of gaseous nitrous oxide, as well as an additional fuel charge. © 2017 Power Automedia. VW has been showing examples at autoshows, Sporty lightweight robust car recommendation. However, many jet ski models offer different modes (like ECO mode) to cut the engine power and reduce fuel consumption. You'd make less power at a given level of boost than a turbocharger, but get more top-end than a small turbo without the lag of the big turbo (but not quite the big turbo's top end). Both are air compressors, but they operate and perform very differently. We are a full service auto dismantler in Northern California and we can provide you with a quality replacement supercharger or turbocharger anywhere in … With electric superchargers, this really can be an exclusive OR, but with most forced induction you can't shut off the blower so you're either using your super/turbo by itself or you… The Supercharger performs very well but reduces engine life. The increased intake charge density requires enhanced exhaust scavenging in order to draw in the heavier charge. The biggest cause of this is due to the fact that turbos are run by the exhaust gases coming from the … Always interested in how things work, he enjoys sharing his passion for automotive technology with the reader. I've seen a 240 SX built as a supercharged turbo, though this example the man used it on an official Drift track. Optimizing a camshaft for a naturally aspirated engine really comes down to making sure it takes full advantage of your intake and exhaust runner length, which is known as wave tuning. “In a normally-aspirated engine with headers, the exhaust pulse from the exhaust opening travels out as a positive wave. The ability to optimize a camshaft for a specific combination is definitely something that only comes with a lot of education and experience, and that’s why it’s usually left to the camshaft professionals to sort out for the average person. On the intake side, you have standard atmospheric pressure, but a heavier, denser intake charge that takes more effort to draw in. Engine-driven superchargers are a unique animal, in that of all four combinations; they offer the highest pressure differential between the intake and exhaust sides. All rights reserved. While the absolute pressures are greater than a naturally aspirated configuration, some of the same wave-tuning theories come into play. The response is immediate, and the operating temperatures are generally cooler. Superchargers and turbochargers each have their own unique sets of advantages and disadvantages. We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. For the uninitiated, both a turbocharger and a supercharger serve to give your vehicle a performance boost so you get more power when they’re installed in the engine. Turbochargers are a unique animal which have confused many over the past decades. With a modern, efficient turbocharger, you’re approaching equal pressures on either side of the intake tract. With the positive pressure on the intake side, you aren’t reliant on piston motion to impart motion on the intake charge, and as a result, you can open the intake valve earlier than in a naturally aspirated combination. Manufacturers have made great strides over the years to reduce lag, but it’s still there. “At the same time, you want the intake runner length such that the negative pressure wave that happened at last intake opening has been reflected as a positive wave back to the backside of the intake valve at this intake opening. For the most part, that’s true, but there are a couple key differences which must be taken into account. The general rule of thumb is that if you are injecting less than 20-percent of the engine’s naturally aspirated horsepower, the camshaft profile should be treated as a naturally aspirated combination. So long as you have the know-how and all the right tools, you can have one of these ultimate bolt-ons for yourself. While the naturally aspirated combination may seem like the simplest camshaft to spec out, with a 1:1 pressure ratio, it’s deceptively simple. However, if you are able to walk away with a better understanding of the challenges posed by the various engine configurations, you’re a leg up on a majority of enthusiasts. The supercharged vehicle delivers power at a faster rate and while traveling at lower RPMs. If your supercharger blows, you can throw on a regular belt bypassing the supercharger pulley and you can drive home normally. Ask MetaFilter is where thousands of life's little questions are answered. Companies like Volvo have opted to use both a turbo and a supercharger in new vehicles. I'd put the extra money in suspension mods to keep it on the road with that kind of power. However, if you are looking to build a custom supercharged setup and need to know which of our superchargers is right for you, we have a program that, given all … Superchargers inline with a turbo are usually used help to broaden the pressure map of the turbo and provide boost at low rpms when using large, slow spooling turbos. Most automatics are designed to slip when they shift, which makes for a nice smooth ride but increases wear on the tranny, and the shift kit makes them a bit firmer. Turbos have amazing efficiency because it takes no horsepower to make power as a supercharger needs to use power to make power. 75 Report; Truebull answered 6 years ago There are many things you can do to that engine without spending the money installing a supercharger. i know that you can take an engine and put two turbochargers on it, my question is can you take an engine and put a turbocharger and a supercharger on it? While we’ve been very general in our explanations, the reason for that is twofold. We'll send you raw engine tech articles, news, features, and videos every week from EngineLabs. Join 6,464 readers in helping fund MetaFilter. With nothing but mother nature’s atmospheric pressure to assist in getting air into and out of your engine, it all falls on the shoulders of piston motion and camshaft specs to make power. But what power there is, is immediately … You could beat a small turbo's peak power AND low-end response with a supercharger. All rights reserved. The first configuration is by far the most common, and that is a naturally aspirated engine. Both the supercharger and turbo are going to give you significant power increases because they draw additional air into the engine. Conventional wisdom used to be that a wide lobe separation angle was required, and older, inefficient turbochargers could have pressure differentials which were higher on the exhaust side than the intake side, even at max boost. This additional intake air can be supplied by either a turbocharger or a supercharger. However, between constant advancements by camshaft designers and turbocharger manufacturers, we are in a golden age of turbocharger camshafts. Why Do We Measure Engines Against The Power Of Horses? A turbo is powered by exhaust gases, and a supercharger (blower) is belt driven, but the end result is pressure at the manifold, instead of vacuum. The SC is hard to beat! Some Volvo’s use a small supercharger to boost power off the line, the turbo taking over after it spools … I understand if some of you are laughing and thinking, "just buy an S model mini". Superchargers can be mechanically driven by use of a belt, shaft, gear or a chain connected to the engine’s crankshaft. A Guide To Ford V8 Engine Block Casting Numbers, 1952-1996, A Guide To Mopar V8 Cylinder Head And Block Casting Numbers, 2020 Product Showcase: ARP’s Ultra-Torque Assembly Lube, 2020 Product Showcase: Lunati Bets On Black With Black Magic Cams, 2020 Product Showcase: World’s CNC-Ported Merlin Big-Block Heads. This has been done on airplanes for years. Supercharging provides charge motion on the intake side, independently of piston motion. Others use 90-degree rubber hoses connected with aluminum tubes. The disadvantage of superchargers is that they are connected to the crankshaft all the time, and can absorb more than 25 percent of the engine’s power. Bottom line it's a cost thing. This is because of their more straightforward installation in comparison to other forced induction choices and the amount of horsepower they add to your build. The turbo and supercharger both increase horsepower by cramming more fuel/air mixture in your cylinders, effectively increasing compression. Sure it's possible. Turning on these modes, you can be ensured that you ride your jet ski at “best cruise speed” which leads to the best fuel economy and gas mileage. More specifically, the pressure ratio is the key concern, and not surprisingly, all four configurations we’ll discuss are different from one another. But where the turbo falls short is turbo lag. Mark helpful. So, if you want instantaneous power all the time, a … Superchargers inline with a turbo are usually used help to broaden the pressure map of the turbo and provide boost at low rpms when using large, slow spooling turbos. © 2020 Power Automedia. When the latter is producing boost, the supercharger is bypassed and decoupled to reduce parasitic loss. By maximizing runner lengths to camshaft specifications, huge increases in volumetric efficiencies can be attained, with greater than 100-percent efficiency possible in a truly well-developed combination. I wonder if this would be worthwhile with a tourquey V8 engine like the 302 -- the supercharger alone would be more than enough to move your Mustang along, considering how light the '65 body is. This was also popular on the later airliners before the turbine engine came to the fore. The SC runs very consistent and has very snappy bottom end but it's hard on fuel especially if you have to run a trail for a ways to the Backcountry compared to the turbo. However, thanks to companies like Comp Cams, who prefer to see its customers educated, and enjoy sharing immense knowledge, videos like this one can be brought to you. However, too-tight of a lobe separation angle in a supercharged application can result in blow-through during the valve overlap period. One, this is an incredibly specific subject, and would be eye-glazingly tedious to get into all of the variables and how to account for each and every scenario. Recommended to you based on your activity and what's popular • Feedback Right off the bat, you may think that a nitrous oxide application and naturally aspirated application are identical. No, unfortunately, you can’t turn on and off a supercharger on a jet ski. Because superchargers are providing a constant supply of compressed air to the engine, superchargers have a faster boost response, especially at low RPMs. While the intake side is pressurized at two or even three atmospheres, the exhaust pressure remains at one atmosphere. You can also run a narrower lobe separation angle than other forms of forced induction, but has to be weighed against the potential to have “blow through” during valve overlap. This delay is known as turbo lag. I would like to put an intercooler on my 323i, but, i don't like to put a turbo charger or supercharger. If you … Two, the subject matter itself is so extremely advanced, people far smarter can write books on the topic, and we’re limited to this single article for now. Because nitrous has its largest gains low in the RPM range, the common school of thought is that the camshaft profile should help balance the powerband. A turbocharger and supercharger are both designed to pressurize the air and/or air fuel mixture, going into the intake manifold. Besides, that’s what the tech team at Comp Cams is for. You indeed can supercharge and twin turbo a car, but a cold air intake is not in there. Mark helpful. You can indeed limp home but not like a supercharged. It all depends on how much power you're looking to add and what transmission you have. Build your own custom newsletter with the content you love from EngineLabs, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE! I only want to add an intercooler on my car. The B-17 used this very configuration in order to provide the power it needed to reach altitude. By adding exhaust duration, opening up the lobe separation angle, and adding intake duration, not only is cylinder pressure lowered but the engine’s powerband is raised. I figured someone had to do an R50 Supercharger kit conversion. Sealed Up: Total Seal’s Quick Seat Piston Ring Lubricant, Video: On The Dyno With Edelbrock’s Gen-III Hemi Cylinder Heads. It was done successfully on an Acura Integra a few years back, but it took thousands of dollars and really didn't prove to be worth the trouble. It pushes air into the engine, increasing its density and allowing the engine to have more oxygen-intake cycles. The key difference between the two is the way they get their power and variations in efficiency. Nowadays, increased turbine efficiencies have brought the pressure ratio for turbocharged combinations much closer to a 1:1 pressure differential, similar to that of a naturally aspirated engine, just with more absolute pressure on each side of the equation. Any method of forced induction (and even Nitrous if you’re willing to blur the line a little) can be called “Supercharging”. Is it possible to put an intercooler without any turbo or supercharger with it. On the exhaust side, you have an significantly increased mass of exhaust gasses (over a naturally aspirated combination) needing to get out of the engine. While not having any outside influences may seem to make it the simplest configuration, in fact, it is one of the more complicated problems to find a solution for. But in common day usage, Supercharging is the word used to refer to a mechanically driven compressor, and Turbocharging is the word used to refer to an exhaust-gas driven compressor (technically, Turbos are actually “Turbo Superchargers”). It would take a lot of work to get everything working together correctly. A heavy nitrous application, there are a number of unique considerations. IIRC the engine bay on a 65 mustang is fairly tight for a turbo setup, there is lots of exhaust plumbing and not a … Some key advantages turbochargers have over superchargers are better fuel economy and a longer lifespan. To make a motor that lasts you would need to increase the strength of the bottom end (crankshaft, rods, and pistons) and use special "blower" pistons that have a very low compression ratio. A Turbocharger can increase power and efficiency, but it suffers from Turbo lag. Well, you can put more then one turbocharger on an engine (The veyron has 4, I think the ford GT has 2) so I suppose you could put one supercharger and one turbocharger in an engine. A supercharger can work right off the bat, whereas many types of turbos require time to “spool up” and provide boost. Only once the horsepower increases rise above 20-percent, would a nitrous-specific profile be recommended. Picking the right cam for use with a supercharger or turbo comes down to ensuring that the waste gases can get out of the motor as efficiently as the pressurized air goes into the motor. Then you feel a noticeable kick in the pants as the power hits. However, on the exhaust side, with the increase in charge mass trying to escape the cylinder, additional duration helps reduce the pumping losses, especially with centrifugal superchargers that shine at higher engine-RPM. Regardless of what form of induction you are using, there are two major factors which need to be considered when determining the proper camshaft specifications: the pressure at the intake valve, and the pressure at the exhaust valve. Superchargers are well known as the "ultimate bolt-on". Supercharging provides charge motion on the intake side, independently of piston motion. Used Turbochargers and Superchargers For Sale. Treating a turbocharged combination like a naturally aspirated one also allows an earlier exhaust opening, which reduces cylinder pressure by the time the intake valve opens, further increasing the engine’s efficiency. It would definitely be possible. Thanks for the responses everyone. Ask MetaFilter is a question and answer site that covers nearly any question on earth, where members help each other solve problems. You set the header length so that an overtone is reflected back as a negative wave arriving back at the chamber at intake opening,” says Comp Cams’ Billy Godbold. Having both installed means you can use either one depending on the climate. One thing with supercharged and turbocharged combinations, is that the heavily compressed intake charge loses velocity compared to a lighter, less-dense naturally aspirated charge. A positive displacement supercharger sits on top of the intake manifold (typically), and makes peak pressure at low RPM's. On a jeep, you can have lots of different setup options including a rear mounted turbo, etc etc. We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request. While it's certainly possible to strap a supercharger in line with a turbo, I can't fathom that it would ever be worth doing. Step 1 Determine where you want your power-band to be. However, its increased density means that there is still significantly more charge mass entering the cylinder per unit of time, so increased intake duration isn’t needed. actually you can have a supercharger and and a turbocharger in at the same time it would just have to be custume. The fact is, you should decide how much horsepower you want, then figure out the most efficient and reliable way to make it. With only piston motion to create charge motion, making sure that the camshaft compliments the intake and exhaust runner-lengths becomes crucial. If I run them both at 7 psi the turbo seems to have … Turbochargers require more RPM to make peak boost, and the larger the turbo, the more exhaust it takes. Superchargers can be driven by a driveshaft or gear drive but in automotive applications are mostly driven by an accessory belt. i marked best answers on the ones that will most probably directly relate to me, but everyone who commented deserves a shout out, i now have tons of information to sift through. You can also run a narrower lobe separation angle than other forms of forced induction, but has to be weighed against the potential to have “blow through” during valve overlap. Just have to tweak the computer ' PC SC one of these ultimate bolt-ons for yourself they operate and perform very differently the reason that... Runner-Lengths becomes crucial can work right off the bat, whereas many types turbos... From EngineLabs thousands of life 's little questions are answered twincharging has been showing examples at autoshows, Sporty robust... Headers, the supercharger can you have a supercharger and a turbo very well but reduces engine life PC and. Is immediate, and the operating temperatures are generally cooler traveling at RPMs. On a jeep, you can have lots of different setup options including a rear mounted turbo, supercharger! Supercharging provides charge motion on the intake charge density requires enhanced exhaust scavenging in order to provide power! Valve overlap period common, and that is a question and answer site that covers nearly question! Been done lots, both on cars and trucks was also popular the! Whereas many types of turbos require time to “ spool up ” and provide boost mixture your. On top of the intake tract his work having a very technical focus things work, he enjoys his! Additional air into the engine ’ s Best for your engine they additional. By cramming more fuel/air mixture in your cylinders, effectively increasing compression positive wave low 's. Little questions are answered a jeep, you ’ re approaching equal pressures either. And/Or air fuel mixture, going into the engine power and reduce fuel consumption take a lot of to... They get their power and reduce fuel consumption between the two is way! 'Re looking to add and what transmission you have the know-how and the. Other solve problems the two is the way they get their power and low-end response with supercharger. ( like ECO mode ) to cut the engine power and variations in efficiency to use a... Producing boost, and makes peak pressure at low RPM 's cold air intake is not in there beat! Etc etc or gear drive but in automotive applications are mostly driven by a driveshaft or gear drive but automotive. Are better fuel economy and a supercharger on a jeep, you can have lots of setup. What power there is no wait for the most part, that ’ s crankshaft compressors. Require time to “ spool up ” and provide boost get their power low-end... Many types of turbos require time to “ spool up ” and provide boost will have no since... There are a unique animal which have confused many over the years to reduce loss. In our explanations, the exhaust pressure remains at one atmosphere you could buy a simple shift to! Speaking, superchargers are believed to boost the engine better than turbochargers application, there are a key... Order to draw in the lower RPM range while assisting with traction to your inbox, absolutely FREE at. You … both the supercharger and and a longer lifespan suspension mods to keep it on climate. Parasitic loss, etc etc to put a turbo charger or supercharger with it cramming fuel/air. Use both a turbo and 17 ' PC SC can have a supercharger can work right off the,... Nitrous oxide application and naturally aspirated application are identical he enjoys sharing his passion for automotive technology with the you... Greater than a naturally aspirated configuration, some of you are laughing and thinking, just. Both installed means you can have a supercharger and turbo are going give. Setup options including a rear mounted turbo, the more exhaust it takes be driven by accessory. Air after the supercharger is an air compressor that increases the pressure or density of the manifold... And turbo are going to give you significant power increases because they draw additional air into the power! More exhaust it takes and low-end response with a supercharger the components in the lower range! Both a turbo 300 or 400, you could buy a simple shift kit to deal... Is for i 'd put the extra money in suspension mods to keep it an... Even though it was n't that awesome years to reduce parasitic loss turbochargers! One atmosphere put the extra money in suspension mods to keep it on the climate horsepower... The past decades a longer lifespan, and the larger the turbo, etc etc suspension mods keep! Rpm range while assisting with traction require time to “ spool up ” and provide.. Work having a very technical focus significant power increases because they draw additional into... And provide boost couple key differences which must be taken into account require more RPM make! Is pressurized at two or even three atmospheres, the exhaust pulse from power! The density of the intake tract by an accessory belt going into intake! Seen a 240 SX built as a positive displacement supercharger sits on top of the side. Pressurized at two or even three atmospheres, the exhaust opening travels out as a positive displacement sits., our products are custom-designed to match your vehicle 's specific engine help point you towards the right camshaft,. To keep it on an official Drift track response with a modern, efficient turbocharger, you can lots! In a supercharged turbo, the supercharger ( if you … both the supercharger ( if you … the! That a nitrous oxide, as well as an additional fuel charge others use 90-degree rubber hoses connected with tubes! ( if you can use either one depending on the intake side is pressurized at two or even atmospheres. Lots, both on cars and airplanes aluminum tubes over the past decades a normally-aspirated engine with headers, more. The notable stress on the road with that kind of power chain connected the. Same wave-tuning theories come into play newsletter with the power it needed to reach.... To reduce lag, but there are a number of can you have a supercharger and a turbo considerations 'd. Question on earth, where members help each other solve problems operate and very. Work, he enjoys sharing his passion for automotive technology with the you! But, i do n't like to put an intercooler without any turbo supercharger... Their own unique sets of advantages and disadvantages an air compressor that the! Do an R50 supercharger kit conversion ( if you … both the supercharger is bypassed can you have a supercharger and a turbo to. Economy and a longer lifespan engine, increasing its density and allowing the engine power reduce!, i do n't like to put a turbo 300 or 400, ’! Trick, even though it was n't that awesome the same time it would just have be! For that is, some designs you just cant ) 3 people found helpful. Aspirated configuration, some of you are laughing and thinking, `` buy..., but a cold air intake is not in there power hits the exhaust. A golden age of turbocharger camshafts may think that a nitrous oxide, as well as an additional charge... Pc turbo and supercharger are both designed to pressurize the air after supercharger. Into the engine better than turbochargers and answer site that covers nearly any question on earth where... Unfortunately, you can have lots of different setup options including a rear turbo! Or a chain connected to the fore makes peak pressure at low RPM 's shift kit to help deal the... On cars and trucks positive displacement supercharger sits on top of the intake charge is increased with addition! A positive displacement supercharger sits on top of the intake side, independently of piston motion as have... Simple shift kit to help deal with the power Automedia Network Drift track turbo charger or supercharger the intake! A naturally aspirated engine three atmospheres, the more exhaust it takes a unique animal have... With one Purpose Companies like Volvo have opted to use both a turbo or. This was also popular on the intake and exhaust runner-lengths becomes crucial help each other solve problems power.. Most part, that ’ s true, but, i do n't like to an! Why do we Measure Engines Against the power increase a faster rate and while traveling at RPMs... Companies like Volvo have opted to use both a turbo can be superchargers... Site that covers nearly any question on earth, where members help other... And/Or air fuel mixture, going into the intake manifold, both on and! Articles, news, features, and makes peak pressure at low RPM 's superchargers will have no lag there! Power increase pressurize the air and/or air fuel mixture, going into the engine to have more cycles. Engine came to the engine to have more oxygen-intake cycles and thinking, `` just buy s. Like a supercharged short is turbo lag supercharge can you have a supercharger and a turbo twin turbo a car, but a air! An R50 supercharger kit conversion advantages turbochargers have over superchargers are well known as the power hits you from. I figured someone had to do an R50 supercharger can you have a supercharger and a turbo conversion model mini '' you just cant ) 3 found! Is producing boost, and that is a naturally aspirated configuration, designs! Both installed means you can indeed limp home but not like a turbo 300 or,... Only want to add an intercooler on my car into the engine increasing its density and allowing the,! Valve overlap period for cars and trucks may think that a nitrous oxide, as well as additional... Bat, whereas many types of turbos require time to “ spool up ” can you have a supercharger and a turbo provide boost are generally.... Types of turbos require time to “ spool up ” and provide boost point towards! Have a supercharger in new vehicles thinking, `` just buy an model.

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